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SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : Many hon. Members have expressed their views on Kashmir issue. With regard to the Bill that has been brought by the hon. Finance Minister and the approval sought by him for the budget, I would say that Government would have to be given some powers to deal with the situation that exist in Kashmir at present. The provision that has been made in the Bill is to facilitate enquiry in case the people have any difficulty or complaint. I would like to mention two-three points in this regard. Some Members have said that talks should be held, but Smt. Subhashini has said that no talks should be held with the fundamentalists. I would like to say in categorical terms that when I talk of holding talks with anybody, I mean holding talks with any Indian. I do not want to go into the question as to who is fundamentalist and who is progressive. If the some person is elected to this House, we not only hold talks with him but we also discuss all matters with him. I am of the view that differentiation between citizens is not acceptable in democracy. Doors for talks should not be closed even for those who raise a rebellion against the State or the Government. As long as he is a citizen of this country. The doors for talks should remain open to him. Some people advise me to be beware of Nawaz Sharif because his intention is not good. I am not the one who is guided by one’s intention. There may be others who are guided by such factors. I am guided by political considerations.

Pakistan is our neighbour. It was a sheer accident of history that we were divided. However right from the beginning, the leaders of India who have some concern for the future of this country have taken a consistent stand in this House that despite partition of the country we want to live like brothers. I would like to remind the House about what Mahatma Gandhi had said on the question of partition. He chalked out a programme to visit Pakistan following the partition. Had he been alive, he would have implemented his programme. We must remember what Nehruji had said in this regard. He repeatedly asserted that partition was an accident of history, but we would continue to live like brothers,would understand each other’s problems, would not allow hatred to vitiate our minds. This view was reiterated time and again. I would like to remind you of the Simla Summit and would say that Simla Summit was the result of some thinking made which we preferred friendship with Pakistan instead of a war. The then Prime Minister, Shrimati Indira Gandhi was also guided by that thinking. To develop friendly relations with Pakistan has been our national policy. But some people are observed with the ghost of Pakistan and that ghost is haunting them. I have no remedy for those people. Two types of thinking work in the functioning of the Government. Suppose, the country is attacked from outside, in that case, we must give befitting reply, but to create an atmosphere of hatred on the presumption that we will be attacked is absolutely wrong. I am astonished to note that the fear of ghost is haunting both, the rightists and leftists alike and that is why they put forward the view that moves for reconciliation or extending hand of friendship towards Nawaz Sharif will jeopardise the honour and unity of the country. India has firm faith on its self-confidence and endeavour. I am confident that if somebody tries to hoodwink us, it is neither going to weaken our armed forces nor will it affect our defence preparedness. But one thing that we must remember is that, if an atmosphere of tension is created between India and Pakistan, it would be unfortunate. But the history stands testimonys to the fact that this tension spreads to village level and hence we must understand its repercussions. We want this atmosphere of tension to end and that is why we want to ease tension with Pakistan. Some people are horribly upset at my talking to Nawaz Sharif on telephone. But there is nothing like that. I do not discuss with him love stories which should annoy anybody. It should not be made an issue of rivalry. But if the Prime Minister of Pakistan is interested in above developing friendly relations with us, should I tell him that I do not have faith in him or that I want strained relations with his country? If the Prime Minister of Pakistan takes one step towards friendship, I as the Prime Minister of India shall go five steps forward towards creating basic conditions for friendly relations.

India is a big country and, therefore, it has some responsibilities of its region. It is not a question of few persons’ sentiments. The regional powers of the world are foraging unity and we along with our neighbouring countries, which were once part of India are coming closer to rise as a new power.

SAARC Summit was not held simply to pass resolutions. It was a benign efforts to project this region as a new power of Asia. I do not claim that this is going to be a major achievement but we must make effort in this direction. Kashmir issue too must be viewed from this angle. I am of the view that so far as Kashmir issue is concerned, it is not a question of territorial control, it is a question of principles and ideals on which the battle of independence was fought. Secularism is not a hollow concept, it is a way of our life. We have resolved to run this country on this principle

I would like to tell my friend Shri Bhargava that there can be a dispute on whether to retain Article 370 in the State or not, but he must remember that this is not the result of appeasement of any particular community. The people of Kashmir decided to merge into India under special circumstances. Another thing, that we must not forget, is that when the people of Kashmir decided to merge into India, Muslims were in majority there and the armed forces of Pakistan had intended into the valley. But the people of Kashmir under the leadership of late Sheikh Abdullah decided to link their destiny with India because they had faith on Mahatma Gandhi, Jawaharlal Nehru and Maulana Azad. At that time, these leaders had given a word to the people of Kashmir and that promise was vindicated in the form of Article 370 by the Constituent Assembly. A special treatment, in a very limited sense, is being given to the people of Kashmir to keep that promise. If we start thinking the way my friend has given air to his views, we shall not only be negating our history, but shall also be creating an atmosphere of distrust for the future. We must understand this aspect of the problem.

I have a great regard for my colleague Shri Soz. I am of the view that wherever the armed forces and other security forces are deployed for maintaining law and order, they work under strain, and as a les met, sometimes excess are committed. But it is not proper to create an atmosphere to condemn the security forces by saying that they are indulging only is arson, loot and rape. I would like to ask the hon. Members of the House that Army is there since 1947-48 and have they ever heard about the excesses committed by the Army? Have they ever heard about loot by the Army? Now when a secessionist agitation is going on there, other people are indulging there in insurgency such allegations are being made against our Army.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also know this matter and keep close watch on it. Excesses were committed at 2-3 places. Is it not true that Army officers have taken legal action against such personnel and they were court martialed. I do not say that no mistake has been committed but it is wrong to say that the entire Army or security forces have become tyrant. I am against killings be it the killings of policemen or of the terrorists. In this regard I would like to have directives from the House that in case of an attack on the security force from a house, should we ask the police first to check who is there inside the house and then open fire. If any innocent person is sitting in that house he can also be killed in the encounter and we regret for that. But if the Army open fire to kill any innocent person that is a matter of shame for all of us and also for Indian Army. But such atmosphere should not be created.

So far as the question of development is concerned, we are making efforts for that. Our friend Shri Dharm Pal have mentioned about several schemes. We are discussing those schemes. I do not want to go into the matter as to why they were not approved earlier but we have taken a decision that we would approve these schemes for all the backward areas. Sir, I do not want to discuss it here but I would say that sometime we feel that some people think as if we got heaven and we have made it hell during these two months. I do not want to give reply to those people because it is not a question of allegations and counter-allegations by some individuals but it is the question of national prestige. And to save the national prestige I do not want that we should tell the world that we have empty coffer. The people, who were making the country heaven also know as to where they have taken the country to Members from this side also know the reality. I would once again, like to say that we should not be compelled to inform the country and the world about their misdeeds. We do not want to indulge in that thing because such thing bring disgrace to us as well as to the country. Our friend Shri Poojary who has left the House now, was indicating towards it time and again but in spite of that we do not went to indulge in that controversy.

One has to accept good and evil incile taking over charge of the Government. I am saying it not today only but when previous Government was formed by my other colleagues I was also a small part of that Government. At that time also I said the same thing that when a new Government takes over, that become responsible for all the good and evil. It is not that we should own the achievements and disown the failures. Their Government fell and we took over I have not learnt to blame others for the weakness of the Government. Those who curse the past cannot make the future bright. This thing should be understood. That is why I do not criticise the previous Government.

Our friend from Bikaner was asking it repeatedly but I would like to say that it is wrong in principle and that is why I do not want to go into those questions in spite of the constraints country work make progress because we have the strength of people of our farmers and labourers. Therefore, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would assure my friend Shri Dharm Pal through you that we would make all efforts and for that purpose we may have to cut the grants meant for other areas. We would pay special attention toward the development of such areas be it the areas of Ladakh, Jammu, Delhi or Assam. The Minister of Finance is present here so I would say that we have to arrange funds to remove agency and suffering of the people in those areas.

Mr. Soz becomes over enthusiastic. If employees withdrew their strike, he became very happy and when certain thing could not be implemented as he thought he became annoyed but such temperaments would not help us in improving the situation. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir I would like to assure Shri Soz, through you that our intention is the same as I have said earlier about the country that we would like to solve the problems with love and not with the bullet. But it does not mean that if any one tries to pressurise us with bullets he may be from within the country or from outside the country, we would not give befitting reply to him. False propaganda is not an act of bravery. A verse of Tulsidas comes to my mind which says :

“Sur samar Karni Karen, Kahin na janavan yad

Vidyaman ran paya ke, Kayar Karhim pralap.”

The brave persons demonstrate their bravery in the battle field and the cowards indulge in false propaganda only. These are certain people and I do not want to mention their names but request them not to do so. Be it a problem of Kashmir or Punjab, our tolerance and patience should not be taken as a sign of weakness. We want to solve the problems with restraint, tolerance, and mutual affection.

Many things have been said about Kashmir. It has been said that the terrorists will again enter the Kashmir after melting of snow. I think by the time snow melts, the problem of Kashmir will also be solved. One of our friends said that weather was favouring us. A large number of terrorists are surrendering and 1200 AK 47 rifles have been seized there so is it due to weather? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we would welcome every person, may be he is in jail or out of jail who desires to come to the national mainstream. I know that such move would be criticised, the Press would write articles on it and propagandas would be made in Parliament. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to say one thing very humbly and firmly that I would go on the path of negotiation like the end and no one can deviate me from this path. l am also committed to tell those people who do not accept amicable solution that inner strength of the country is still intact and no one can destroy it and if any one tries to endanger unity and integrity of the country we would face them with the help of strong will power and aspiration of the crores of people of this country. We do not want to take such unwanted decision and we hope that we would not be forced to take such decision and the terrorists in Punjab, Jammu and Kashmir or elsewhere would respond to our negotiation call. We do not issue threats. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was listening to some Member who, while speaking on Assam, said that we have given threats to Tamil Nadu and Assam. We do not give threats to anyone. Sir, through you, I would say very humbly regarding Kashmir that we all should move ahead unitedly for bright future and for the unity and integrity of the country. I would like to assure the House that the Government would move ahead for creating a new atmosphere and a new goal along with the people of this country. The co-operation and support extended to the Government would be utilised for creating new atmosphere in the country. The co-operation would be utilised for strengthening the country and not for strengthening the Government.

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have received some suggestions regarding the refugees. Some of them were given by Shri Madan Lal Khurana and Shri Kedar Nath Sahni, who are senior leaders of BJP. Some other Members have also given their suggestions. We are making all our efforts in this regard. I would like to tell, you that so much help has never been provided in the history of our country, as that has been provided to the refugees of Kashmir. Inspite of difficulties, they are being provided with double-trible help. But their difficulties are genuine. Most of the refugees who have migrated from Kashmir, belong to good and affluent families and are in a habit of leading a good life. That is why our maximum co-operation and assistance provided to them appear to be lesser in comparison to their facilities which were available to them in their homes. We understand their difficulties. I assure Shri Bhargava if he has get any more suggestions on this issue we will consider them.

So far as the demand for making arrangements to rehabilitate them is concerned, I think that we should wait for some time more. We are confident that they will be able to return to their homes soon. As Shri Soz has said that no effort is being made in that direction, I would like to submit that we are making every effort to provide them with basic necessities and to provide education to their children along with other facilities. If there is any shortcoming, I assure you that the Government will take care of it and the Government will take stringent action against such people, who are found guilty of showing disrespect to the National Flag, whether it is in Kashmir or in Kanya Kumari, because disrespect shown to the National Flag is disrespect to the nation.