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THE PRIME MINISTER (SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I listened the whole debate with great anguish. Any Indian will feel ashamed or whatever happened during last few days. I do not want to blame anybody. As the leader of this House and as the Prime Minister of India, I take the whole responsibility upon myself. I admit, if a single Indian dies it is a matter of shame for us. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like to tell those friends quite humbly that the whole malady has not come into existence just in a month and a half. This is an old malady. We are trying to solve it, but it has become incurable. I would not go into the figures. We are not satisfied by the figures relating to the number of riots and the number of the deaths occurred. As I said, it is a matter of shame. We will have to go deep into the causes of these riots. What are our feelings and emotions in this regard? When I listened the speeches of Shri Inderjit and Shri Saifuddin I was somewhat satisfied that the sentiment of the people is the root cause of the riots which creates estrangement between brothers. Religion is not responsible for riots but it becomes dangerous when it is used for political ends. If religion is an instrument of developing a relationship between God and man, then it is religion alone which can lead a man to elevation. When religion finds a place in our social and religious life and influences the nature and deposition of man it becomes very dangerous and this malady is in our country. This is an old malady. This country was divided on the basis of religion and this is our history. Our Deputy Prime Minister made a mention of the time when the country was divided. That time also there were people who had intense emotions. There were other forces—the forces of majority, in whose minds the same kind of emotions were predominate. We do not know anything. We do not want to name any party or any leader because the atmosphere is not such. We may create tension and cause the death of people. So we do not want to name any person.

There is no hesitation.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to submit in humble words that when there is a slogan like-

“Babar Ki Santaan, Chhodo Hindustan”

the sentiment becomes evident? ..........It shows how much of hatred and malice is there against each other. The people who are raising these slogans are our brothers. We have no objection when it is said that there is religious equality in our country. There should be no discrimination among different religion, whether it is the religion of majority or of minority. But it is said that why the minorities are not given same and similar chances for progress, and why special assistance is being given to please them and thus politics of vote is being played. I would like to say most humbly that they have not understood the basic principles of our constitution. In our Constitution there is equality for all religions, but they there is a provision for providing special facility to minorities in our Constitution? This was done by the founding fathers of Constitution to remove the fear of disrespect from the minds of the minorities and to create confidence in them. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I want to repeat that it is not a new thing for our country only. Minorities all over the world have this fear, whether the minority is linguistic, religious or ethnic. The responsibility of removing this fear from the minorities is the duty of majority and the Government.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, if we are not ready to discharge this duty. I would like to say to this House through you that we are not discharging our national duty. We would understand this. This is associated with bigger sentiment and the memories of that are not sweet. I want to repeat these memories only to know the reality. The country was divided into two. Who opted for Pakistan? Wealthy Muslims and those who were working on higher posts went to Pakistan. Only poor Muslims remained here. In a society where the sources and opportunities are limited, only those people get chances who get a chance by recommendations. There is no difference between a Hindu and a Muslim in our Country. Higher castes and backward castes get the same treatment. The people who are highly placed in society give more shelter to the people of their own caste. This is the human nature. This is prevalent world over and India is no exception to it. At that time all the affluent people left leaving poor Muslims here. Nobody was there to recommend these remaining poor Muslims. So if we look at it please do not tell us afterwards that I am asking for votes in the elections. I would only like to inform this House that in Government services prior to 1947..........(Interruptions).....if you want to speak, you may, I will speak later on. I have no desire to discuss it with you.

Sir, if you have a look at the figures prior to 1947, whether these figures are related to Government service or trade or Industrial establishments, the number of minority communities gradually decreased. I have got great respect for my friend, (Shri) Vijay Kumar Malhotra, whom I want to say that the figures he gave are selfcontradictory. The person who produces more children increases poverty. “The more backward person produces more children. Whether he is a Harijan, a Muslim or a person living in slums (Jhuggi-Jhompri) who has no hope for the future. It is not that if the number of Muslims becomes 13 crores, they can push back 85 crores. If we look at the problems of minority from this point of view we will arrive at a wrong conclusion. I also admit this that at times the leaders and the masses of our minority community talk in rage. I have repeatedly said that it happened in the entire world. We will take wrong political decision if we go by the dictionary meaning of the word minorities. If the people of minority classes speak in anger that should not be considered a challenge, it is their internal voice their internal feelings which they want to express. I would like to say humbly that majority class of this country should understand their feelings. They are also our brothers. They are not the offsprings of Babar. Babar came here with 10,000 people. 10,000 people cannot multiply into crores of people, they were our brothers. These people were ignored, insulted and condemned by us who were converted as Muslims. Therefore, we should not look at the history in this way and if we do so, we would be responsible for destroying history. I agree that some time certain questions are raised. Whether-Ram can be issue of our dispute. Anybody who lives in India feels that Rama was a unique and great personality of our civilisation and our culture. We can say that he was the personality of which any Indian can feel proud. So how can a person kill his own brother in the name of Rama. I do not know as to where it is written that Rama was born within 1 yard of land. I do not want to go into disputes. If our Muslims brother allow us to construct temple here, then we would have no objection but nowhere in Hinduism it is mentioned as such. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Shri Maithili Sharan Gupta had said in Rajya Sabha that :

Ram tum Manav ho, Ishwar nahi ho Kaya.

Vishwa mein rame hue, sabhi Kahin nahin ho Kya.

Tub me nirishwar hoon, Ishwar Shamna kare,

Tum Norottam ho, Maun Tum mein rama kare,

It is our opinion. Lord Rama is in every temple and mosque, he is everywhere including you and us. Rama is in everything this is the Hindu religion, which Hindu sect says that for a piece of 1 yard land and in the name of Rama people will be killed in this country. If a political leader or religious leader says..(Interruptions) Please remember, we cannot change the civilisation and culture of thousands of years. We can be the Member of Parliament but we cannot be the makers of Indian culture. We can also not be the scripture writer. Indian culture is like continuous flow of Ganga. It has only one speciality that is we accepted the people of every religion. We have never condemned anyone. We did not use weapons against anyone to assimilate them with us. We have never forced anyone but we always adopted the path of persuations. Therefore I tried that the issue of Ram Janam Bhoomi should be sorted out through mutual negotiation. We felt that Indian culture has equally affected Hindus and Muslim. Indian culture is not the property of anyone. It is the achievement of crores of people who have taken birth in Bharat, our motherland. Who can say that Taj Mahal is not a part of our culture and who will deny that Red Fort is not an unique monument of our culture. If it is true to whom we want to separate from us. Do we want to develop our body by cutting a part of our body. Neither our culture will be develop nor our country will make progress by it. This is the basic question before us. Therefore, Hon. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to say to the people of this country through you that they may not try to create any disputes on this issue. We have many other issues for discussion. We have many issues like economic issue to discuss, we should not raise any issue between the human beings. We should not create differences between Ram and Rahim, if we do so, will it enhance the prestige of our country. I have no hesitation to say as our friend Safuddin Sahib has said that he is a young man and he has more enthusiasm whereas I may not having that much enthusiasm. I know that no Chief Minister can stop it. At the time when riots take place, firing and stabbing incidents take place hardly 100-200 or 500 policemen are there to maintain law and order situation.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, there can be my weakenesses. If Prime Minister, visits any place, whatever you do, all police force is utilised for the security of Prime Minister and nobody goes to the riot-affected areas. My assessment can be wrong, do not say that I am always right but I would like to say to my elder leader of Muslim League that we might be informed that so much force is on duty there but out of them 500 or 1000 are deputed for the security of Prime Minister then there may not be a single policeman to care for the injured crying in lanes, it can be a wrong decision from administrative point of view but I have not taken this decision due to lack of resources or because of the fear that one may kill me. But every man has his weaknesses perhaps it can be my weakness, I would not feel hesitation in accepting it but it does not mean that I had no information about riots. Wherever riots have taken place, we have contacted either the Chief Minister or the District Magistrate or the S. P. of that place after every hour.

Saifuddin Sahib talked about Aligarh incidents. I know that at many places officers were negligent and he knows it but he does not mention about another aspect that the District Magistrate and S.P. were transferred from there within 4 hours. I was very much aware of it and steps have been taken in this regard. It is not a fact that we have not taken any step, wherever it was possible to send force and police by aeroplane, we have done that.

It is also said that promises have been made, I do not know how many promises have been made. The people raised the issue about forming the riot police but there are some problems in doing so. Our colleague Shri Subodh Kant has said many times that there is a problem in it as many State Governments, excuse me I do not want to crisis anyone or threaten anyone, perhaps many State Governments are not ready for it and people have no faith in them. Then how can they work. Some days ago a proposal came to us. The proposal was that just as we have national security guard and during emergency they can be sent in any part similarly if this House approves then we would like that our officers may think of forming a riot police so that wherever riots may take place, this police could be sent there within 3 hours, but House’s support and permission of State Governments are must for it. If you approve it, then the matter will not take anytime, this riot police can be formed before commencement of the next session. But you have to give acceptance for it and should ponder over it. But do not think that I am saying something new. National security guards are already there. The central police deals with the high jacking cases or such other dangerous incidents. Where ever they take place in the country similarly if we may think over it and I feel that we should think over it, if riots take place anywhere the responsibility of dealing with it should be that of the Centre and State Governments should give their assistance for it but magistracy should be there and police should be given full authority to tackle the situation. Some conditions can be imposed that police will not stay at the same place for more than 3 or 7 days. It will come back after controlling the situation. Such conditions can be imposed. What will be the machinery which should remain impartial. We have to take decision regarding holding of test, recruitment and other procedural things. It will take a lot of time. Today there are many police organisations with us, we can make such arrangements by taking some people from them.

So far as the question raised by Shri Indrajit in connection with judges is concerned, we can say that we can think over it and can take any decision with mutual discussions or we can take decision through judiciary. This issue was criticised very much and has been said that Congress President approved it and I was bound to accept it. Daily newspapers and eminent newspapers also criticised it and wrote editorials on it, that Shri Chandra Shekhar accepted it due to pressure of Shri Rajiv Gandhi. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you can ask from Justice Krishna Ayyar, Vergese Saheb and Swami Agnivesh, they are my old friends. They are neither our supporters nor they are the members of any party even then first of all they approved this proposal. Same proposal was made by Shri Rajiv Gandhi in refined form and I also accepted that we should think over it and consider it. There can be some objections if Supreme Court takes decision on it. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, somebody asked whether both parties are ready to accept it but there is no doubt that nobody has opposed it. We have tried to consult the leaders of both parties, at least Babri Masjid Samiti has said that we would accept the decision of the court. We will accept the decision. I hope that the people of Vishwa Hindu Parishad also will also make such announcement. This is the only way to save the country and to develop country. If such decision is taken once then it can also be suggested that no changes can be done at other worship places. The date may be from 1947 or 1950 when Constitution was implemented. It should be done by moving a proposal in Parliament or amendments may be made in the Constitution. It should be finally sorted out. If we are not able to do so we will not have escape from it and we would like to assume you that we are determined to do it and we will do whatever is required for it. There is nothing more important than the life of a man. I feel that few people may die due to bullets of the police, but nobody will die due to stabbings. After all for what is this political power? This political power is the collective power of the people. The man has entrusted his power to the rules and the Government, when he found himself unable to protect himself. Our protection lies in the collective power, collective energy and the political power encourages the strength of the collective power. If this it would be a great thing if the political power is not used in the country of Ghandhiji and Budha. But if there are some compulsions and man is after the blood of other man, then the Government would not sit idle. I am surprised to hear the news from different places that army is being sent there and such and such Government is being dismissed. But neither the army is being sent anywhere nor any Government is being dismissed, all have there limitations. All have to work under their limitations. Government of India has its own limitations and we have no right to interfere in the working of State Government but wherever State Government violates its limits it becomes the responsibility of Government of India to do its duty with regret and sometimes it has also to take strong steps for it. We know it very well and similarly Governments duty is to give protection to the people but if somebody threatens the security of another man then it becomes the responsibility of the Government to bring such people on right path by making them afraid of law and to maintain order. I feel that we would have to test the powers of religion so far as the question of communal riots is concerned. Religion should not be used for raising the passions of the people through objectionable slogans. In fact, I know the fear and pain of the people. I would also like to appeal to them that in anger we must not say anything which may give any excuse to others. There are certain forces which are always in search of a pretext to start riots. I would appeal to you, urge you not to allow any excuse to such forces. I want to assure you that the Government is eager to protect your interest. I would like to say to the people that it does not mean that the minority or anybody is above law or the Constitution. I am surprise and pained at the attitude of some people, our friend Khurana Saheb and Vijay Kumar Malhotra Saheb know about my attitude during communal riots in Delhi.

I don’t want to mention those things in my speech but when it is alleged that Government have failed and remained inactive...

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : Sir, through you, I would like to submit to the House that there are several speakers in the House who say that when I became the Prime Minister there was peace all around, there was no tension and all were happy and no sooner I became the Prime Minister, than the disturbances started. Did all this happen in merely one and a half months?

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : It was our Government, that is why I say this, I take it as a national responsibility. Therefore I am not prepared to level any charge against anybody. I reiterate what I said earlier that one who is tied to the past cannot forge ahead in the future. We cannot build a new future by repeating previous mistakes I would like to submit to the House that in order to build a new future we should assure the minorities that the entire country, the Government there to protect them. All the Members of this august House should resolve that they would live like brothers. I don’t have much knowledge of the rules and regulations of this House but if all the Members say in one voice that they will protect the minorities, that we will live like brothers, then there would be no communal riots. That way we will be serving our country and will raise the dignity of the House. If the message of unity goes from here it will help maintaining unity and integrity of the country. Shri Santosh Mohan Dev of Congress (I) suggested that a motion should come from the Chair which all of us must support. It will help develop a new sense of confidence in the minds of people, and communal tension will come to an end and a new beginning will be made. I also welcome it....(Interruptions)

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : In this connection I don’t want to mention a particular person. The cassettes which are being distributed are very bad. We have been repeatedly urged to take some legal action in communication with these cassettes. The police cannot seize them, cannot go from village to village to seige them because they are very small and can be carried in the pockets. If we seize them, these will be played in the courts. So we have not seized them whatever has been said in the cassettes is not proper in any way. It will be better if the circulation of these cassettes is stopped..... (Interruptions)

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not say that these are the only cassettes. But they are more objectionable. The people who play them live across our borders they have no representation in this House.

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : I know that whatever is happening in Kashmir is really very unfortunate. However we are taking measures in that regard. Indrajit Gupta is anguished we are not taking any action in to the what is happening in Delhi. But we do not want to repeat here what we had to do in Kashmir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to mention one thing more before I conclude. Many Members including of course, Shri Vijay Kumar were concerned over the vigorous propaganda being done by the Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh. Secondly, Chaudhary ji has pointed out that a news its in certain newspapers appeared that Muslim doctors killed 28 persons in a hospital in Aligarh. This is totally baseless there is no truth with. This news created riots in Varanasi.

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : In Kanpur also, riots erupted what can be done in this connection. After all, Press is free, and eminent intellectuals are involved in it. But my bad luck is.... (interruptions)

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, during riots a lot of rumors spread, but at least 3 to 4 newspapers published this irresponsible news item. Through this House, I would humbly request such Press people not to indulge in such activities, otherwise action will have to be taken against them which will be painful both for them and for us. They must not repeat it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I respect Rajmata ji. She had stated that hundreds of dead bodies packed in bags were thrown in the Saryu river, in Ayodhya. I have been constantly urging the people to give me the names of even ten such persons so that we could enquire into the matter. Similarly one of the most respected Muslim leaders said that 1500 Muslims were killed and buried in Bijnor. Such irresponsible statements are being made by responsible persons. Rajmata ji must have heard it from somewhere else. I have twice urged those who made these statements to give me the names of even ten persons whose dead bodies were thrown in the Saryu river; or even 5 persons whose dead bodies were not handed over to their relatives. But till this day, I have not received any information in this respect. We too, have certain constrains.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, through you, I would like to submit to the House that I am from that category of people who have very little selfrestraint. However, in view of the prevailing bad circumstances if I also do not restraint myself, the situation may further deteriorate. Therefore, myself restraint patience should not be considered as my worsen. The person who consider this silence as my weakness are mistaken. I do not want any confrontation. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I assure you that whatever steps are required will be taken in order to maintain law and order and to create a sense of confidence in the minds of minorities, and I am confident that the House will cooperate with me in this connection.

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : I agree with the Member and I am ready to do this. I entrust this responsibility to Shri Advani. He may give the names of any five Members of this House and I am prepared to set up a five-member committee under his Chairmanship. I will also accept the report which they may submit after examining the whole matter.... .(Interruptions)

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR: I understood what Shri Advani has stated. However, I cannot announce that in the House, but the Government of Uttar Pradesh will probably not object to this. In regard to the incident in which you said that dead bodies were thrown —(Interruptions)

I am ready to bring all the aspects in the purview of that committee inducing the faction responsible for creating tense atmosphere— (Interruptions) I am ready to enquire into all these aspects.

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : I am ready for this also.

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am ignorant of the pact between them and Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav......(Interruptions). But I would humbly tell Bajpaiji that today Shri Mulayam Singh has announced the enquiry. Probably he has written to the Chief Justice of High Court to appoint a judge for this purpose. This step has been taken in view of your demand. I don’t have details. However I have this much knowledge and I will inform you after I get the whole information.

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : We don’t have any......(Interruptions).. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am advising Shri Madan Lal Khurana to leave the Ram Janam Bhoomi issue to the Supreme Court, why doesn’t he agree......(Interruptions)

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : This is not so, I haven’t assigned any such job to Shri Chandra Swami from my side. Shri Chandra Swami is a saint......(Interruptions) Lot of people in the country are taking interest in this issue and Chandra Swami is also interested in this matter in the same way......(Interruptions)

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : Yes, it may be deleted..(Interruptions)

SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think this is a serious objectionable expression. This communal situation should not be compared with the Kashmir situation. He wants to give an impression outside that Kashmir is a communal problem. It is not a communal problem; it is the problem of insurgency. So, the Hon. Member should understand the implications of both these things. I am sorry that in one problem, he tries to bring another problem. This is altogether a different situation. Whatever is being done in Kashmir, has nothing to do with the Muslims or Hindus.